Message from Heelbot

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Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator
Turns out i can get to this forum from work now, and i'm not doing much of anything else, so i figured i would take this time to say some things, and ask some questions.

1. Coming expansions:  I know that as new content is released, its kind of easy to forget about previous content due to the shinyness of the new gear.  This is true with ToC and Uld... who needs uld, or even uld hardmode, when ToC is dropping better gear?  For guild progressions sake, that is why we are hitting ToC first.  We've all seen that HToC, however, is not a gear vending machine for us to insert quarters and receive our free prizes.  Its a meat grinder, and a gear check, and that is why my aim at the moment is ToC, and then Uld to fill gaps in gear.  If we could manage to start clearing ToC in one night, then that would give us a chance to see and finish off the uld content (ie, Yogg)... but as of yet, we've been left with just one raid night a week to work on something other then ToC.  I just want everyone as geared as possible for the upcoming patches and expacs, but i'm also one that enjoys what the game has to offer in challenges.  Yogg is a challenge.  (Hard modes in uld are also a challenge, but aren't high on my priority list).  HToC is going to be a challenge.  Uld is the new Naxx, and people are going to start to loathe it in the same way pretty soon, never wanting to return to its gates, but i want to make sure that the trinkets and rings and gear that people still need from there doesn't go unlooted... so just put up with uld runs for a bit longer, and lets just try to see how fast we can punch through it.

2. Recruitment:  Initiate rank is there for a reason.  To bring someone into the guild without the worry of them taking your hard earned loots, while getting them used to us and letting us figure out how they are going to fit into our team.  We should never stop recruiting, because you never know when you're going to have flake outs or mysterious disappearances... and its best to always keep people on their game by having a bench of ready to go players.

3. Needs Lists:  I haven't been using the "who needs what from whom" lists because we haven't really had a bench the last couple of weeks.  I'm hoping to remedy this, so please don't get worked up into a frothing rage if you are benched for someone that needs a drop from a boss.  I'm going to try to put the greatest needs in the priorty, for the fastest and best advancement of the Guild.  I know that everyone needs badges and wants trophies, but i don't want a real drop to go to waste in ToC.  With that in mind, i need the help of others to keep me informed if the boss drops something they need and i've missed that fact.  I do make quite a few mistakes when it comes to setting up the raids and who's in and out, even though I try to keep it all fair.

4. Officers:  I have my inner council... those people that have been helping me with the running of the guild almost since its formation.  I tend to be rather pig headed and stubborn, and in most cases, far too nice... and these people have always helped me out to keep things fair and moving forward.  I thank them for always putting up with me and my insanity.  I am, however, considering the instatement of an officer class.  A rank for people to help with the kind of stuff i was just talking about in item #3.  For example, "Person X" needs the item that drops from this boss, but so does "Person Y"... that is something that i'll already know... what i might not know is that Person X has a ilevel 232 for that slot already, and Person Y is sporting a 213...  to me, that is important information that i might not know.  The biggest upgrade for the guild would be to make sure that item ends up in the hands of Person Y.  This is just the kind of stuff that i can't be keeping track of during a raid... its one of the reasons the raids can move slower then they should.  When a substitution needs to be made, i don't always have the best information at hand.  Raiding in Hubris is not, and has never been, a popularity contest.  I've always tried to use Need to determine raid spots, starting with raid composition needs, followed by loot needs.  I'll be the first to admit that we also fall short for the requirements to kill certain bosses due to the limitations of players.  Part of the officer position would be to work with everyone to make sure the best gear/gems/dps rotations/healing rotations/addons are being used to maximize everything that we do... sometimes all's it takes is a slight modification in a dps rotation to see resounding difference in dps output... yes sometimes it requires a slight spec change, or a change in play style, but we all have to evolve and move forward with our specs as they are buffed and nerfed... nothing remains static... what you were doing 6 months ago probably doesn't work the same now.  I would expect officers to research what the top guilds are doing, look at the way they are doing it, and try to pass this knowledge onto our guildmates.  Sometimes all it takes is to browse through a forum to have a "Eurkea" moment, that changes your dps for the better.  Please, even if this officer rank doesn't come to be... if you are good at what you do, PLEASE help those that you see lower on meters.  Its time for some Hubris boot camp.  New "training" vent channels forthcoming, and god help those training dummys.  We all want to see HToC loot, but for that, we ALL need to work and help out those around us... and we all have to be willing to accept the constructive critisisms that are going to come from this.  No one is so good that they can't improve, and there are those of us that know that we need some pointers (myself included), and shouldn't be frustrated or insulted by the idea.

5.  Yes... I'm long winded... I know it...  thanks for putting up with my rant and my numerous stabbings of grammer... don't worry... i'll finish off the English language soon enough... I'm just sharpening my blades.

6. Officer Appointment:  Yes, I'm sure many people wouldn't mind having some weight to throw around... but what i'm expecting out of Officers is not just the help with bench/not bench issues, but also what i was talking about above with keeping everyone up to date on the latest dps/healing/tanking specs and strats.  I'm not just looking for people to ask for the responsibility to be an officer, but i'm also looking for people to be recommended.  If there is someone that you wouldn't mind getting help from, let me know.  Its not going to be alot of work, but it is going to be above and beyond normal guild functions.  Step up to the plate if you want to help, and give shout outs to those you think would be good at the job.  We need to rattle the cage a bit so we don't fall into any kind of rut.  I don't mind input, and i don't mind being critisized, just as long as there is some backing to go along with it... not just "Heelbot, you're a douchebag"... i want to know why I'm a bag full of douche.

7. DKP:  Don't get all freaked out if you like the current rolling and looting system... i'm just trying to think of ways of "fairing" it up a bit, by dolling out "points" for raids and other guild helping activities.  How i want to use these points is still a zygote of an idea in my head... One idea is to just have a set number of points for each roll you win, thus causing you to "spend" points when you win a roll where there is competition, perhaps making people think twice about rolling, and making it less likely that one person will keep winning loot all night.  I know that numerous people tend to pass when they're on a winning streak already, but not everyone is so honorable.  The other option is using your points to help pad your rolls.  BEFORE you roll, you could say in a whisper to whomever is managing the roll that you are putting "X" amount of points into the roll, thus padding your roll by some amount.. turning a 10 into a 40 or something... points only be consumed if you win, thus creating a "damn i really want more then any other item" spending mentality... i tend to like the first idea better upon thinking about it, and i'm sure there are other ways of trying to do what i'm thinking about... so please, let me know what you think.

8. Heelbot's Baby:  I will not be as available as some may be used to... and i'm not very available as it is... all the more reason i'm working on this new rank now before the baby shows up.  I am going to need help to keep this guild going, and i'm going to need fair and honest leadership to help me out in my absenses from the game.  Just be aware of this... heh... i don't want me having a kid to be a detrement to the guild, or cause any lack of progression.  

9. New Guild Website:  I'm working on finding us a new home on the web... because the one we have now kind of sucks.  Miss was working on something, and i'll need to talk to her a bit more... but i'm looking for something cleaner, and better.  I'm finding all sorts of template sites on the web, most of them averaging about $7-9 a month... they seem set up well, with many ways of showing attendance and "points"... who has looted what... item linking... forums that are actually integrated into the site... ease of updating... (you know.. so it doesn't look like the last boss we downed was Malygos)... i'm also looking for a site with some sort of "clan pay" option, allowing those that have the means to maybe help out with its upkeep.  Haven't found a way to do that with the vent server yet, but i paid that up for a year, so it shouldn't be an issue for awhile.

That's about all i have for the moment.  If you happen to notice this post, please inform others in the guild to come and check it out so i can start getting input on some of it.. or questions... or whatever... and thanks for putting up with the whole thing if you've actually read to this point.

-Heel
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Bradøck
I have some questions:
1 - do not understand about "do not worry ... I'll finish off the english language soon enough." :)

2 - It's about the DKP system. I honestly do not like. It's good for when there are people in the guild, as you yourself said in another topic, they decide to stop playing for a certain time and leave the guild in trouble or people who simply disappear. These people will not have accumulated points and so can not take a loot of a player who is with the guild whenever she needs. BUT, I guess I remained the same system to equip all players equally, increasing the level of the guild and their own. With that my understanding, the DKP would be bad, because if someone gets out of the raid (or some specific boss), that person would lose points DKP.

3 - I have been in a guild that had this kind of point system, but who were not in the raid, but were in the raid group, earn the same points that were killing the boss. BUT, had problem when these people who were only in the group wanted to leave the raid group quest to do or something that, in raid group would not be possible. The players did not want to run out of "play" waiting for a spot in the raid.
 
4 - The other topics that you wrote I agree and I think they were wise words. Just do not understand, because of my English and my translator, it would be class leaders. If would be great to improve the performance of all. Everyone always have something to improve.

5 - Your child will be a gift from God and you will enjoy it enough. And I believe that at some point we.

Note: If I wrote something wrong or offensive to you or someone from the guild, please forgive my English and my translator. :)
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator

I have some questions:
1 - do not understand about "do not worry ... I'll finish off the english language soon enough." :)

Heelbot:  That was just me making fun of my own bad grammer skills... talking about how i'm murdering the english language.

2 - It's about the DKP system. I honestly do not like. It's good for when there are people in the guild, as you yourself said in another topic, they decide to stop playing for a certain time and leave the guild in trouble or people who simply disappear. These people will not have accumulated points and so can not take a loot of a player who is with the guild whenever she needs. BUT, I guess I remained the same system to equip all players equally, increasing the level of the guild and their own. With that my understanding, the DKP would be bad, because if someone gets out of the raid (or some specific boss), that person would lose points DKP.

Heelbot:  I'm just talking about a limited form of DKP that helps keep things fair.  Its not a perfect idea.  Other options would be some sort of Loot Council, that just looks at gear and attendance, and hands the item out based on previous looting and need.

3 - I have been in a guild that had this kind of point system, but who were not in the raid, but were in the raid group, earn the same points that were killing the boss. BUT, had problem when these people who were only in the group wanted to leave the raid group quest to do or something that, in raid group would not be possible. The players did not want to run out of "play" waiting for a spot in the raid.

Heelbot:  I've always allowed anyone on the bench to leave raid to do something else, as long as they stay in vent and are still reachable.  Points would still be earned in this way, the same way that attendance still counts for them now.
 
4 - The other topics that you wrote I agree and I think they were wise words. Just do not understand, because of my English and my translator, it would be class leaders. If would be great to improve the performance of all. Everyone always have something to improve.

Heelbot:  Everyone should always be striving to do better, and trying to find ways to do so.  Raiding well can be expensive on the respecs and gem changes while you make sure you've tweaked yourself as best as you can.

5 - Your child will be a gift from God and you will enjoy it enough. And I believe that at some point we.

Heelbot:  Thanks, bradock :)

Note: If I wrote something wrong or offensive to you or someone from the guild, please forgive my English and my translator. :)
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Re: Message from Heelbot

boskone
In reply to this post by Heelbot
Regarding xpacs, I'm up for most anything.  I got really tired of Naxx, but I believe that Blizz isn't planning on doing that to us again.  Naxx was just too much of a walkover, and too much time before Uld.

Regarding loot, any system is ultimately equally fair/unfair, it's all in the underlying mechanisms.  Our system works, but a DKP (or DKP-ish) system could also work.

I don't know about the other classes, but Bullz and I talk a lot about how we're playing.  We tend not to involve others because we're basically it for Hunters, but there's a lot of in-class chatter going on.  I'd actually considered suggesting (locked) "type" channels (e.g. melee DPS, ranged DPS, healers, etc) so that we can talk about that without clogging the entire guild/raid chat.

Yea, family first Heelbot, no-one (important) would hold that against you.

Regarding the website, my offer to host is still open.  I don't know about attendance- and point-tracking tools, but I can install forum software, any content-management system we want (I personally use Drupal, but there are number of other good packages), etc.  I couldn't do a Vent server, but could TS (or text chats, like Jabber or IRC).  We could probably integrate Google Tools for calendaring, use Google Spreadsheet for attendance tracking maybe.  It's supposed to be pretty easy, but I've never done it.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Bradøck
In reply to this post by Heelbot
One thing I was thinking. I said I do not like DKP, but the system would be good yes. When one takes all they have in raid (example) and decide to stop playing for a while, this person no longer earn points. But in the meantime the guild is in need of more people online. Or even this particular player that is missing. If the DKP reset every 6 months, when this person will not take back items from other players. Mostly new people in the guild. So I believe there would be unfair to those who joined the guild to help it grow.
 
Note: This is only ideas that are emerging in my head to try to help those who are already thinking about it. If any suit for the board of the guild, good.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Bradøck
In reply to this post by Heelbot
One thing I was thinking. I said I do not like DKP, but the system would be good yes. When one takes all they have in raid (example) and decide to stop playing for a while, this person no longer earn points. But in the meantime the guild is in need of more people online. Or even this particular player that is missing. If the DKP reset every 6 months, when this person will not take back items from other players. Mostly new people in the guild. So I believe there would be unfair to those who joined the guild to help it grow.
 
Note: This is only ideas that are emerging in my head to try to help those who are already thinking about it. If any suit for the board of the guild, good.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Obereon
In reply to this post by Heelbot
grrr stupid ingame browser ate my post... twice..

I lol'd at the Vending Machine..

I hated DKP in Exiled... Zelius dropping 1600 DKP for the Vag tier helm.. was a bummer.. I know you didn't get yours either lol... but if you go for a type of a DKP system... then you best iron it out and figure it out.. i know that if I roll a 95 and someone rolls a 75 but bumped thier roll by 30 using thier DKP and win with a 105 someones getting curb stomped.. and I don't mean my macro =P
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Obereon
In reply to this post by Heelbot
Oh, and don't forget on your "TOC one day, Ulduar 2 Days" thing.. that soon we'll have Onyxia.. who will be dropping 252 gear I believe in 25man.. so we'll have TOC > Onyxia > Ulduar.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator
Obereon wrote
Oh, and don't forget on your "TOC one day, Ulduar 2 Days" thing.. that soon we'll have Onyxia.. who will be dropping 252 gear I believe in 25man.. so we'll have TOC > Onyxia > Ulduar.
Is Onyxia going to be in her lair? or are they going to open another portal in Wyrmrest?
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Twinstar
In reply to this post by Heelbot
Raid Schedule
TOC > Onyxia > Ulduar & (VOA 25 When Available)
DKP
I think that we should just go to DKP (No more rolls)
1 Point (Attendance to Raid) > Must be ready (Flask, Food and Repaired) and on time.
1 Point (Each Boss Kill) (New Boss might be more points but would be at the discretion on the GM or Raid Leader)
1 Point (Stay to End of Raid)
1 Point  (Bench) (Person must be available on bench for the duration of the Raid.) (Officer must be able to contact either on vent or wsp if on Alt.
We would need to establish a minimum DKP spent on an item if only one person bids. (Probably 1 Point would do it.)
Loot List
Necessary if we want to keep positive guild progression. (GM and Officers would use the loot list to manage the bench.)
With DKP in place we probably don’t need new officers. Especially true if the DKP standings are made available via the guild website.
Twinstar
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Obereon
In reply to this post by Heelbot
Onyxia lvl60 40man is being removed from the game.

Onyxia will stay in her home in Dustwallow Marsh, so mages will be breaking out the Theramore portals.

Her 10m Loot is 232 w/ 245 Weapons

Her 25m Loot is 245 w/ ??? Weapons

Which we will be enjoying today.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Obereon
In reply to this post by Twinstar
Long as we keep it that Elites are over everything else.. and the new officers are for more than just loot... Heelbot is about to have his world turned upside down by a child.. he will need capable people to assist the inner circle in guild management while hes taken away.
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Twinstar
I agree about elites Obe. We have 5 officers that i know of you would think that would cover all the bases.
Twinstar
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Re: Message from Heelbot

boskone
In reply to this post by Obereon
Just have a multiplier, then.  Elites get *1.1, raiders *1, initiates *.9, something like that.  So, if an elite, a raider, and an initiate all bid 100 dkp for something, then the elite is treated like 110, the raider like 100, and the initiate like 90.

Or bonus dkp for raid completion based on rank?
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator
Like i said, my dkp idea is simply a zygote of an idea that is based around keeping people from getting upset by the same person winning over and over, but keeping the "rolling" system in place.  I know that i tend to do alot of gear inspecting and nudging when it comes to lootz, and i always appreciate it when people pass down minor upgrades to others where its perhaps a major upgrade... i think that helps us grow as a guild faster, and its just nice.

... i got off topic and into another topic...

basically people would get "points" for showing up and being flasked and staying till the end... and for doing things like agreeing to sit for others, or just other guild advancing or helpful things...   then we would set a price for progression gear... a certain number of points... so when someone wins a roll, they automatically spend that number of points.  If they don't have enough points, they just don't roll.  (Unless its a situation where there isn't any competition for the item, or if its for off spec)...  i would probably keep the point totals low, and chop off points when they get too "old" so you're not amassing huge amounts of them... it would mostly be a system put in place to discourage "winning streaks" that can frustrate other players who are after the same kind of stuff, and might keep people from rolling on stuff that truly isn't their bis, and may just be an upgrade from what they have...  it would also have the inherent ability to track attendance by handing out points for being there (or being on the bench.. both would be equal when it comes to earning points)...

this is kind of dependent on the kind of website we end up with.  still need a chance to talk with nann and look at what he was thinking about doing, and to continue looking at some of these other places online that host WoW websites and offer up things like forums and "dkp" and raid attendance tracking through in game mods and what not.  Just trying to find an easy way to track it all, seeing as how i'm slightly lazy, and my time is limited and i don't want to spend all of it while i'm online doing guild bookkeeping... i think there are more important things we should be doing...   one more reason i've always been a fan of a loot council type of system...  the problem with that is making sure greed and favortism don't play a role... i know that i always try to play to the side of the fair, but it can't just be my decision who gets something, hence, a "council" for looting..  you inspect, you look at attendance, and you see where the item would be the best fit.. if its going to be an equal fit between a couple players, then you just have a roll off between those few...  its a tricky system to get to work well, but when it comes right down to it, i think its better then rolling and dkp could ever be...

Thanks for helping me out with the quick subbing over the last couple nights.  Its a good initiative that i see people taking, and it helps me out alot.  i never want to sit anyone, but to make a successful guild where we don't have to worry about whether or not we can raid, we NEED to have a stable group that includes people subbing in and out from a bench... knowing that, and understanding that, and not getting upset when its your turn to sit out, is part of playing as a team... and i don't want to keep benching those people who always agree to it as well.

perhaps the need for a new "officer" rank isn't completely necessary, but there are always alot of whispers flying around during a raid, and it would be nice to not have to sort through all of them myself...  in my mind, it slows down the general flow of the raid, and makes things take longer.  So new officer positions would come with specific "jobs", nothing too strenuous, but it would help in speeding things up, and it would give people a target for specific questions...  

Myself, Raan, and Lia:  We tend to try to concentrate on overall raid composition, and the strategy the current comps need to use to accomplish goals... me and raan try to do most of the raid leading, and calling out targets or mid fight strat changes that may be neccessary... this isn't really an easy job, and messages and whispers and concerns about loot and who is in and who is out for the next fight do slow this job down as we try to get moving.

Drakma and Miss:  Mean ones.  I expect them to make sure people aren't being stupid, and to help enforce the flow of the raid if minds start to wander.  Heh... i know that miss hasn't been around, and Drakma himself can get distracted, but they can both lay down the law when they need to, and it helps me from having to yell as much.  Right now i know they are always having to deal with alot of whispers about loot and sometimes bad mouthing of other players...  no player is perfect, but its true that some people do need help at times... i also tend to make alot of assumptions about what people may know, and what they are capable of, and i just go with those assumptions... i think its drakma that deals with the brunt of whispers about what i may be doing wrong, or how someone else could be doing a better job at a task i've handed out.

in general... trust that i kind of know what i'm doing... it helps with my rage level, because i'm a controlling and authoritive asshole... yes, there may be a better way of doing something, but try to keep it in whispers instead of raid chat, to avoid confusion as to what the strat is going to be...  i know i fuck up, but in general, after seeing a fight play out a couple of times, we tend to come up with enough good ideas to make sure the fight goes in the win column.

This brings me to Officers... tasks i would like to give to a new rank
1. Helping to track raid attendance and who wins what and when (and helping to keep track of dkp if we do that)
2. Assisting with moving people in and out from the bench.
3. Inspection of people during rolls on gear to help and try to maintain a fair approach to the handing out of loot... (this guy already has a 245... shit like that)
4. Out of raid assistance with gear/gemming/enchanting and dps/healing/tanking rotation help.  No one is perfect... i'm always seeing people say something or whisper something about another players mistakes... and what usually comes to mind are that players own mistakes. we need to help eachother out instead of finding fault.  if you notice that someone is messing up, make sure they know what they're supposed to be doing, or offer guidance instead of ridicule.  If someone's dps is low, there is a very good chance it can be boosted dramatically with just more knowledge of what buttons to press and what order... we all have pretty equivalent gear, and there's no reason anyone should be significantly lower on meters unless their job in the fight keeps them doing as much....... dammit.... long story short:  Help eachother out, and be willing to accept help... i would like these new officers to be approachable guild members who people wouldn't mind getting advice from.  (There are also numerous online guides to playing classes from top end guilds out there... check them out)... as Raankain always tells me, he thinks i could do better just by moving where i hold my hand on the keyboard, and using different keys as my hot keys... he may be right, and i'm working on trying it... but that's the hard part... adjusting the way you are comfortable playing to try and see what you might be missing.

i know this is just random babblings, but i think i'm getting some points across... its mostly business as usual, and i'm not planning any major upheavals...

keep the input coming...  heh.. even though i don't know if everyone is reading this thread.

-Heel
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Kenash
In reply to this post by Heelbot
We should really start putting some effort into ToC10 and ToGC10 as well. Get some team building going (synergy) and farm emblems to help everyone out. Last week it only too took 46 minutes to clear ToC10 start to finish for me. I was talking to my sister on the phone last night. She's in about the #164 alliance guild in the entire world right now. They clear ToC10 AND ToGC10 both in 3 hours 1 night. ToC25 is 3 hours another night. Lastly ToGC25 beasts, lord, champs, and twins (trys) on the 3rd 3 hour raid night. I know we're not there yet but we should at least try to emulate some of the best guilds like that. Listening to her explain how they ran ToC was wild since they do way way different then us. Like they use ranged dps mainly hunters for collecting balls on twins since healing suffers if they move. They burn the worst DPS faction champ #1 then healer then dps then healer etc. (Less of an issue after patch now)
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Kenash
In reply to this post by Heelbot
One of the DKP 'style' system I ran into and liked before was EPGP. I think that would be a great system for our guild if we wanted to use something in that realm.

"EPGP stands for Effort Points/Gear Points. Effort Points (EP) quantify the effort each member put towards the, hopefully common, guild goals. Gear Points (GP) quantify what loot each member got back in return. Loot priority (PR) is computed as the quotient of the two:

PR = EP/GPThe person with the higher PR gets the first say on loot. As a result, the more effort you put the more gear you receive. As a matter of fact, the gear you receive is proportional to the effort you put."

Ref:
http://www.epgpweb.com/help/system
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Re: Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator
Raid nights, at the moment, are reserved for 25 man content.  It would be great to have 2 solid groups that could clear both versions of the 10 man, but i kind of doubt that... i have a feeling a team would have to be stacked to pull that off, and that means plenty of people not getting to raid on a raid night, and that's not really my intention.

I don't even want to think about how you quantify effort.  i'm sure its probably attendance, but it just makes my head hurt to think of it any other way...  i won't be making this kind of drastic change to the way we're already doing things... just trying to come up with ways to make the current system a little more fair.


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Re: Message from Heelbot

Kenash
The EPGP system is an addon you install. It's pretty much like 1 point per hour of raiding last I looked. It uses decay to prevent hoarding of points as well which is a major downfall to DKP. The other system would be 'Suicide Kings'. Basically it speads out loot so everyone gets 1 item before the next gets a 2nd like we do with trophy's. If no one wants stuff then someone can get a few items back to back but otherwise it won't happen. Again there's an add-on you can install to use that system as well.

As far as raid nights I know we reserve them for 25 mans but ToGC10 loot is higher then ToC25 and it drops trophy's too. Doing ToC10 then ToGC10 back to back with the same group would build team work, confidence, and bring people together. Sure you'd prolly fail at ToGC10 for a while but then you learn to pull together and function as a collective like the Borg! A smaller raid like 10 people also let's people focus on weakness in others that 25 mans can often mask so we can improve as a guild like you mentioned. Maybe we can just start a static Thursday/Friday raid for that but going with mostly the same people every week would be great for progression practice.

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Re: Message from Heelbot

Heelbot
Administrator
Heh.. i'm not stopping any of you from doing that... i can't commit to more then Three raid nights, due to the fact that my wife would stab me in the neck.  i try to do the 10 mans when i can, but i can't set them in stone unless i get a green light from her.  (I also enjoy the WoW because of the pvp, which i also try to make time for)

what i don't want to see is one 10 man group starting... having people leave it, bringing in more people to get saved to it.. and then picking up another day and using even more different people... making it impossible to try for a 2nd group.  If you do 10 man ToC and start to have issues with people needing to leave, don't dip too deeply into the pool of players we'd need for another group.  Trick is to have well balanced groups with high chances of success.

(Heroic 10 man is on par with 25 man normal.. 245 gear.. but the extra trophies would help speed the process along)

Dont' expect dramatic changes in the looting structure.  Just keep expecting rolling, me chiming in with what people may be wearing (or someone else helping me chime in who's keeping better track then me), and "you've already got one" trophy mentality...
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